What Tamar Can Teach Us: Teresa Whiting

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What Tamar Can Teach Us

Guest:Teresa Whiting

From the series:Overcoming Shame (Day 2 of 2)

Air date:October 11, 2024

Teresa: I will start with Tamar. She’s the first one. I think for her the lesson is that we’re not defined by the evil that’s done against us. God sees those things that are done in the dark. He saw every single thing that she endured and then she actually had twin boys. And Perez is the one in the line of Jesus.

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave: Well, we spent yesterday talking about shame. I’m laughing. We didn’t really, we talked about shame and hiding, but we talked about being restored from that, and that was powerful.

Ann: It was so good. We’re really excited to have Teresa Whiting back with us because she’s written this Bible study that takes us into the scriptures of women who were discarded in society, looked down upon, and yet they encounter this gracious God and He restores them, restores their identity, restores their shame, and reminds them of: this is who you are because this is who I am.

So Teresa, you did such a great job. You told your story. If you didn’t listen yesterday—

Dave: Yeah, go back and listen.

Ann: —go listen. Because your story was so powerful, of just God’s grace and pursuit and wooing and healing you. It was really powerful.

Dave: It’s almost like you had to write this book.

Ann: Yeah.

Dave: Is that true?

Teresa: It is, but I’ll tell you what I argued with God. I was like, I don’t want to write the book. I don’t want to be the sexual brokenness lady. I didn’t want to, but I came to a place of being, okay then, be the hope lady. Be the lady that can stand up and tell women you’re not alone.

Dave:I mean, that’s your podcast, right? What’s it called?

Teresa: Find Hope Here.

Ann: Yes.

Dave: Yeah, exactly. And we didn’t talk about this yesterday, but when did both of you decide to come out of hiding? Because when you have a sexual abuse past, it’s easy to say, “I’m just going to, that’ll be my secret.” Both of you at some point said, “I got to speak this out.” Talk about that.

Teresa: Yes. Ann, what’s your story?

Ann: Well, we went to seminary, and we started taking some classes on how to do counseling in seminary. And as a result of that, all your own junk comes out. I had told Dave that I had been sexually abused, but it was kind of this, “Hey, yeah, I was sexually abused, but I’m new in Christ now and I’m sure that God has healed me.”

Dave: And I felt the same way, “Hey, it’s no big deal. It’s in the past. We’ll just move on.” Oh boy, guess what?

Ann: But as you know, there were consequences to that. There was shame that I was carrying in our marriage. It affected our physical relationship. It affected my view of Dave and his view of me. And as a result of those seminary classes, I started coming home talking about it. And I think it was the first time I realized “This was abuse.” And then it made me go back and recall some of those instances.

But the biggest thing that happened, because Dave did feel like a safe person, but my sister came to visit me, who’s six years older. She was the first one that came to know Jesus. Then she shared the gospel. I gave my life to Jesus. And then we went out to dinner, just the two of us, and I said like, “Hey, I’ve never shared this with anybody, but this is what happened to me growing up.” And then there was silence. And then she shared her story, which I had no idea of her abuse that went on for seven years that was even more extreme than mine.

She had only told two people, and the people that she told made her feel shame like, “Don’t you ever go into that room” or “Don’t you ever get close to him again?” So what did she feel? “Oh, it was my fault.” And so as a result of that, we began a journey of healing together and digging into scriptures together. And we became closer. I remember driving her to the airport after that, holding her hand as I’m driving in LA because we were living in California, going to school there, and both of us sobbing of, we had shared our secret with one another and this bond that God had given us, but also, He healed us, and He was healing us through one another.

And later she passed away. I think that’s why I cry, because she’s my best friend and she passed away. But I remember asking her, looking back, this is when she was really sick. I said, “Looking back on your story, you started sharing your story of abuse to a lot of people.” And she said, “I would live through that again because it showed me the grace of God and the power of His healing and the power of His freedom. And I want everybody to know that Jesus can set them free no matter what has happened to them or no matter what they have done.” That was, gosh, I didn’t mean to go there, but that was the beginning of telling my story.

How about you?

Teresa: That is so beautiful.

Ann: Sorry, I sit here crying.

Teresa: No, I get it. I get it. This is the time to cry. That’s totally appropriate, I think. Wow.

So for me, I had decided as a young kid, I’m never telling anyone. I kept that promise. I did tell Greg right before our wedding—

Ann: So you did too.

Teresa: —because I felt like “I can’t go into marriage with this big secret,” but it was the same thing. It was one conversation. “I was sexually abused. Okay, moving on.” Never talked about it again.

Dave: Really?

Teresa: And then here we are. This is probably about seven years ago. I was asked to speak at my church. We were having a women’s event, and they said, “Well, why don’t you be our speaker?” I had never done speaking before. I had always wanted to, always dreamed about it.

Ann: This is just seven years ago.

Teresa: Yes. And so I said, okay. And so I started preparing and literally everywhere I went, I’d be listening to a podcast, reading a book, turn on the radio, and I’d hear this little phrase, “No one else can tell your story.” And I’m like, “God, let’s tell a different story. Don’t tell my story. And it just kept coming over and over. And so I decided I would tell my story, but not just mine. I would tell the story of my past, my brokenness and redemption and the grace of God. But then I also told the stories of these women in scripture. The way I do that talk; I am very visual. I like to have visuals.

Ann: Yeah, you do a great job with it.

Teresa: What I would do is I would have women come up to the table. I didn’t tell just my story. I told stories of other women in scripture like these women in Graced. And they’ll come up. I have giant place cards with labels on them, broken, discarded, violated. And as I tell their story, they sit at this table with a nameplate in front of them, and we go through the whole story of each of these women. And then I share the gospel and just the power of what happens when we encounter Jesus. And then I usually play a song. I’ve used Lauren Daigle’s Rescue. And while that song plays, women will stand up and they flip their card around and they put it down. And so it goes from devastated to rescued and all these different things, broken to mended. And you can see women reacting to that of “I don’t have to stay here. I don’t have to stay in this place.”

That was the first speaking thing I ever did. And it was very powerful. And so many women talked about, I mean so many women saying “I’ve never told anyone. I’ve never told anyone.” And that’s the common theme. People from ages 24 to 84 saying, I’ve been carrying this secret for 80 years and I’ve never told anyone. After I did it once, it just became like, “Oh, this is resonating with people, and they need to know this.” And even though it’s not the story I wanted to tell, it’s the story I have. But it’s also the story of God’s grace, and if I can share that with all the women who have experienced sexual brokenness, then so be it. Then that’s the story I’m going to share.

Ann: At the Weekend to Remember conferences is when I started sharing it on a regular basis. It’s just my story. And as a result of that, I was amazed at the women who lined up and said that same thing.

Dave: They line up—

Ann: Oh.

Dave: —to the back of the ballroom.

Ann: Here’s my question to you as a listener, have you talked about it? Because when we bring it into the light, it doesn’t have that grip on us. But man, the first time you bring it into the light, it is scary.

Teresa: Yes, I agree.

Ann: And as you said yesterday, you need a safe place to bring it into the light, and I think you need a good counselor too.

Teresa: I agree.

Dave: How has your husband been able to walk with you through this? A lot of husbands are listening and thinking, “This is my wife’s story; what’s my role?”

Ann: Or maybe it’s the opposite.

Dave: The other way around. Yeah, could be the wife walking beside her husband.

Teresa: He has been so supportive from day one, very supportive. We did go back to counseling and start talking through some of this a little bit more, but he has been very sensitive to me, “What do you need? What do you not need?” I think talking about it more has been really helpful. That’s to me the most helpful thing is having conversations about, “t’s hard; it’s uncomfortable; it’s weird.” And you need to. You have to talk about, this is a fact. It’s not just in the past, it’s in the present. There’s the residual effects. I don’t want people to feel like, “Oh, look, she’s good,” and it’s all over. There’s still work. We’re still doing work around it, but I’m not where I was; not where I was.

Ann: Yeah. Well, let’s go back into your Bible study because you talk about the women who have just dealt with incredible shame, but then they encounter this great merciful God or Jesus. Who’s one of your favorite? Yesterday we talked about John 4 and the woman at the well, the Samaritan woman. Who else

Teresa: I think I’d love to touch on—oh, this is so hard for me—Tamar. I’ll start with Tamar. She’s the first one. Because when I read Tamar’s story, and this is Tamar, Genesis 38. There’s a few Tamars in scripture, but this is the one who was married to Judah’s wicked sons. The second son who was actually using her for his sexual pleasure but would not give her a child. And you see this story of this woman, and the first time I read it, I read it again. I’m like, “Wait, what? What is this?” And this is in the Bible. I literally felt like I was watching daytime TV, like Jerry Springer. What is this story? This is nuts. Because she eventually ends up—

Ann: Wait, start at the beginning. Don’t say eventually.

Teresa: Oh, okay, okay. So let’s tell Tamar’s story. She is a Canaanite woman. Judah is one of Jacob’s 12 sons. They sell Joseph. He and his brothers, they sell their brother. Judah takes off and goes to Canaan, not where he’s supposed to be, but this is what he does. He marries a Canaanite woman. They have three sons. Then he takes a wife for his first son named Er, and this is where Tamar comes in.

So Tamar is a Canaanite. She marries Judah’s first son. It says in scripture that Er was wicked and God took him; doesn’t give us any details. And I like to say too, we’re spared the details of what that wickedness looked like. Tamar wasn’t. She knew being married to a wicked man. And so because of the Levirate law, the next brother in line comes and he marries her. His name was Onan.

And it says in scripture, and this might be a little graphic, but it says, when they were together, he would spill his semen on the ground because he knew that if they had a son, the inheritance would go back to the older brother. And he didn’t want that. So he was using her. And God says what he did was wicked, and God took his life.

So now Judah is eyeing this woman with suspicion like, “Hmm, two dead sons. She’s dangerous.” So he tells her, “Hey, go live with your father and when Shelah, the youngest son grows up, you can marry him.” Well, it becomes really evident in the course of time that Judah has no intention of giving her to Shelah.

And so his wife dies and he’s going to this festival, and Tamar finds out, and she knows her father-in-law, and she dresses herself as a prostitute, steps out into the road and is propositioned by Judah. And he says, “Let me sleep with you.” And she says, “What will you give me?” And she takes his signet ring, his cord, and his staff, which is basically like his driver’s license, his credit card and his iPhone. And then she takes off with that. Three months later, Judah gets wind. Tamar is pregnant. And he says, “Okay, bring her out.”

Ann: He had no idea when he slept with her and propositioned her that that was Tamar, his daughter-in-law. He had no idea.

Teresa: He did not know it was her. So he says bring her out and let her be burned. So I see a little double standard there, but as they’re stacking the wood, she comes out and she says, “By the way, the father of this baby is the owner of these things,” and she produces his signet ring, his cord, and his staff. Now, I don’t know about you, but this sounds like a modern-day miniseries. I see this camera—

Ann: This is why you have to read the Bible, right? It’s way better than any miniseries.

Teresa: Yes! Oh, it’s not boring. People who think the Bible is boring, I’m like, you have not read the Bible. So basically, she produces the evidence like “You’re the father.” And he says, “She is more righteous than I.” And at that moment, she is vindicated because according to that law, he had to give her Shelah, and he did not. His family line is about to die out and he’s not doing anything about it. And she steps in and does this courageous, really difficult task.

Ann: Scary.

Teresa: Yes, probably knowing this could cost me my life and yet she did that. And then here’s what I love. You go to the New Testament, you read the book of Matthew, and it starts with the genealogy of Jesus, and it lists 42 men and 5 women, and the very first woman in that line is Tamar. And you think, “Wait, wait, God, don’t you want to hide this story? You want to shine a spotlight on this one?” He’s like, “Yes, yeah, I do. This woman who was abused, experienced sexual brokenness, she’s the first one I’m going to name in the New Testament and who I’m putting in the line of Jesus that I’m going to name out.” Wow.

Dave: I mean, where do you think the point of that is? What’s the lesson that God’s putting a spotlight on her?

Teresa: I think for her, the lesson is that we’re not defined by the evil that’s done against us. God sees those things that are done in the dark. There’s an interesting word play, too, in that whole story. She stepped out on the road to Enaim, and that word means eyes. And I’m like, “Hmm, God saw. He saw every single thing that she endured,” and then she actually had twin boys. She had two boys, and Perez is the one in the line of Jesus.

Dave: I mean, how do you two reconcile God saw your abuse and did nothing during it? And you write about this, you bring this up. So it’s like that is the question so many of us have, whether it’s abuse or any hardship, it’s like, “Why didn’t God stop it? Why did God allow it to happen?” That’s an easy one to answer. Just throw your thoughts on that.

Teresa: Well, I know that was facetious. It’s not an easy one, but I think God is sovereign and He doesn’t condone the evil. I’ve come to realize He was weeping while that was happening. He had no joy, no pleasure in that; but He can take the wickedness and the fallenness of this world and use it to, like your sister said, “I’d let that happen again because it’s a testimony of God’s grace and what He can do.”

And no, we’re living in this post fall world. We’re living where there’s so much sin and brokenness and it breaks God’s heart. The word you used, Ann, about God pursuing, how He pursued you and your sister, I think that’s the whole story, is he’s pursuing us. Even though all these horrible, terrible, heartbreaking things happen, He’s pursuing us with a heart of love to redeem and restore. And one day He’s going to wipe every tear from our eyes, and that’s going to be a distant memory.

Ann: I agree with that. His pursuit of us and we live in a broken world. I wish that nothing like that would happen, and we will live in a world that’s not broken one day. But while we’re here, and I think I love this story so much because how he sees us, he saw her, he rescues the oppressed. He never forgets. He never forgets. And so just his rescue, and not only that, but then redeeming the story that she is in the line of Christ. When you think of the lion of Judah, and then you hear that story like, oh, the lion of Judah. Oh, and isn’t that what he does for all of us? He looks at our lives when we’re surrendered, and He lives within us, as like “Look at you.” But we look at ourselves like, “Eww, look at us.” But He sees himself. He sees the grace of the gospel in us.

And so Dave, as I was thinking about that as you said, “What do you do with that ‘Why?’” And I remember I was doing this counseling with a woman, and she said, she took me back to the place where some abuse happened. It was just a bad memory. And she had me visualize it. She had me do some things of how, like God—give it to Him, tell God the truth of what you felt in it. And it was the shame, the anger, the wanting to hide. And then she said, “Now what does He see? And what does He say?” And I have had this sense that he calls me his beloved daughter, and I was like, “Oh.”

And then this was the crazy thing that she said. She said, “I want you to picture Jesus in that scene of where it happened,” which I felt like that’s weird. And I could see Him weeping. And then He grabbed me, held me on His lap, and I felt, and this is just the picture that I had of my daughter, like He’s weeping with me, but I will heal you. I am with you. I see you.” And at the time, like He said, “And I will use this for good.” And that’s what He does say. What Satan meant to harm me; He uses for the good.

So I mean, what do you do with that? All of us have those. Like Dave, your story, why did God allow you to be raised in an alcoholic family where your dad left and abused you? What would you say to that?

Dave: He used it. Here I am sitting in a studio talking about marriage and family and legacy. And because I came from a broken one, God restores and redeems the broken. That’s in a title somewhere of a book that’s laying right here on our studio table. You can get it at FamilyLifeToday.com, (dis)Graced. I mean, how did you come up with that title? You got grace in there, but (dis)Graced. Everybody feels disgraced and you’re like, no.

Teresa: One day I was writing down a one-word synonym for shame is disgrace. And I was like, but we’re not. We’re the opposite of that. And then, I don’t know, I crossed out the dis and I was like, “Oh, that’d be a good title for the Bible study.”

Dave: Well, I have a feeling people are going to want to get it because you just did Tamar, and yesterday did woman at the well. There’s four others. I mean, Rahab, Bathsheba. I’m so tempted to say, let’s talk about Bathsheba, but we don’t have time. Woman caught in adultery, the sinful woman.

Ann: I know that you’re probably thinking, “What’s my next small group? What should we do?” This is what you should do because you’re in the Word. It’s not fluffy, but it’ll penetrate deep. God’s Word always does that.

Teresa: And I’d love to tell women too, that are listening, like if sexual brokenness is not your story, there’s two reasons for you to do the study. One, it’s the story of somebody you know. It’s your mom, your sister, your best friend, your daughter, somebody. And then secondly, it covers things like shame, which we all deal with, sexual or otherwise.

Ann: It’s not just sexual or brokenness. There’s all kinds of reasons for shame.

Teresa: Yes, it talks about labels, forgiveness, identity, worship. These are things that every person needs in their life, not just these women and not just us.

Ann: Let’s close with some application for our listeners. This is for men and women. How would you suggest that we start? What should we do with this today?

Teresa: I think number one is to talk to God about it. Speak it out loud, go alone somewhere. Get alone and speak your story out loud and tell God, say, “This is what I felt like. This is my rage, my sadness, my shame,” all of it.

Ann: Even tell him “Where were you?”

Dave: My questions, my doubt, my struggle.

Teresa: And then find a safe person, counselor, another safe person to share your story with. One of the things I’ve just completed is some certifications in coaching, and I’m going to be offering coaching. So if your listeners need a safe place to tell their story, I will have that on my website as just a safe environment. And I am not a licensed therapist or a counselor, so I won’t delve too deep. I’ll refer people out. But so telling somebody your story. I think that this study or any study that gets you deep into God’s word, but I love studying the people in scripture.

Ann: Me too.

Teresa: And then in each chapter there’s a day of Psalms. I love digging deep into the Psalms because when you’re going through all this hard stuff, the Psalms are a place where you can pour out your emotions and you can see the heart of God, the tenderness, the mercy, the grace.

Ann: And let me just add, too. This freedom that comes that Jesus gives us and as He heals us, that not only affects your life; it affects your family’s life. It affects the way you parent. It affects your marriage because it brings out who God created you to be and allows you to walk in freedom and to love lavishly in your home. So not only does God want to restore you; He can use this to restore your entire family. And I feel like Teresa, the best way to end today is for you just to pray.

Dave: Hey, and let me say one last thing before you pray. I was thinking this, “Way to go,” Teresa and Ann, both you two, to have the courage. As I think back to whenever that was, you first shared your story, and you, that takes real courage because it’s easier to just hide and live with the secret. It’s not easier. It tears you apart.

Ann: Yeah, it’s toxic.

Dave: But it’s scary to think, I’m going to say this to my husband or now to a group of women, way to go. I think you went from broken to restored and you’re shining, not just sort of. You’re shining, both of you. I want to say, “Way to go.”

And I would just say to other women listening, that might be your next scary step is to tell someone. It may be a whole bunch of people, but it’s got to start with God and then some person. I would say to men too who are walking around with the porn secret or the anger secret or whatever it is—

Ann: And there’s a lot of abuse with men too.

Dave: Yeah. I mean, this is two women talking, but you have to—it’s a courageous moment to say, “God, okay,” It’s almost like close your eyes and jump because He’s going to meet you in the air. He really is.

Ann: Will you pray for us?

Teresa: I will.

Lord, we thank You so much that You are our rescuer, our redeemer, our restorer. Lord, thank You that You step into our broken stories. You stepped into this broken world so that you could be with us every moment of every day. Thank You so much for the power of the cross, Lord, that You took our shame. You scorned it. You made a mockery of shame, and You rose victorious.

And Lord, You are so good. You are running after us with steadfast love, with mercy and grace that You want to pour out into our lives. And I just pray that You would do that; that every listener would know, Lord, that You are pursuing them with a heart of love. Lord, I just ask that You would open their hearts to You, open our eyes to see Your goodness and Your grace. In Jesus name, amen.

Ann: Amen.

Dave: Amen.

Shelby: I really felt like Teresa was praying for me right there. I’m so grateful to know that Jesus pursues me with love in his heart and that he has shamed shame by rising from the dead and ascending to the Father in heaven. It’s such good news that gives help and hope for people just like me.

I’m Shelby Abbott, and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Teresa Whiting on FamilyLife Today. Teresa has written a book called Graced: How God Redeems and Restores the Broken. You can get your copy right now by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you could click on the link in today’s show notes. Again, you can head over to FamilyLifeToday.com.

Earlier this week, we had on an author and a speaker and a comedian. Her name is Amberly Neese. And she talked a lot about what it’s like to live in our culture today with the tension and division that exists not only around our kitchen tables sometimes or in family gatherings, but on social media as well. And even though Psalm 133 tells us it’s good for believers to live in unity with one another, many, many Christians just don’t live that way. So how do we as believers address living in unity with one another when today’s culture is so often characterized by anger and people being easily offended?

Well, FamilyLife® has put together a five-week video series along with our friend Amberly Neese called “Moving Toward Each Other in the Middle of a Divisive World.” This will really help you to address and come away with some practical guidance and suggestions on how to move toward people and build bridges instead of living in a continual environment of anger, hostility, and divisiveness.

So you could sign up for this five-week video series that FamilyLife has put together simply by going to FamilyLife.com/FindingCommonGround. There’ll be a link for it in the show notes as well. But if you wanted to head over to FamilyLife.com/FindingCommonGround, you’ll be able to find the five-week video series from us here at FamilyLife, along with our friend Amberly Neese.

Do you follow us on social media? Well head over to Instagram and look for FamilyLife Insta. In order to follow us there, or if you’re on Facebook, just search for FamilyLife for more regular encouragement from the ministry of FamilyLife.

Now coming up next week, what is it like to thrive in motherhood while pursuing your creative passions? Some people think that’s impossible to do. Well, Ashlee Gadd is going to be here to talk about what it looks like to link thriving as a mother, but also pursuing creative passions. That’s coming up next week. We hope you’ll join us.

On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We’ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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