Marriage Expectations: True or False? with Collin Outerbridge

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Marriage Expectations: True or False?

Guest:Collin Outerbridge

From the series:Modern Romance (Day 2 of 2)

Air date:October 22, 2024

Collin:Romans says this: “Outdo one another in showing honor.” Paul’s heart here, in that text, is saying, “Listen: you want a great marriage and intimacy that you always dreamed about? Think of ways that you can bless your spouse and serve them.”

Shelby: Welcome to FamilyLife Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.

Ann: This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave:Okay, so we’re talking something we never talk about, here, on FamilyLife Today: marriage, love—

Ann: We’re getting into it, again, today.

Dave: —romance. Yeah, we’ve got Collin Outerbridge back with us—pastor of Nona Church, here, in Orlando—but we’re really in/are we really in Lake Nona?—we’re in Lake Hart, but we’re next door.

Collin: We’re Lake Nona-adjacent.

Dave: Yeah; well, welcome back. Married to Stacey; how many years?

Collin: Fifteen years.

Dave: Four kids—

Ann: —but they’ve been together 20 [years]; they started dating in high school.

Collin: Yes.

Dave:You dated a long time—

Collin:We did.

Dave: —five years.

Collin: Yeah, we were juniors in high school when we started dating. I remember this like it was yesterday: I called her dad; asked her father if I could have permission to take her on a date. I explained to her what the date—or him—what the date would be. The plan was that we would go to Johnny Rockets and that I would, after that, take her to Paint Pottery. I asked him if this would be okay; and he said, “Let me check with your dad.”

My father worked in the same building that my, now, father-in-law did. And so he walked downstairs, and my dad and Stacey’s dad had a good hour-long conversation about what this might mean. And then, I got a phone call back, saying, “Collin, you may take Stacey on this date; but your dad will be dropping you off, and I will be dropping Stacey off. We will be back to promptly pick you up at”—I think it was like—”9:00 pm.”

Dave: Really.

Ann: How old were you and Stacey?

Collin:We were sophomores in high school, going into our junior year. Sixteen years old is when we started dating; and it became official in September, and we’ve been dating ever since.

Ann: Okay; let me ask you—this is a little side note—you have two older girls.

Collin:Yes.

Ann: Will you want their prospective date to call you and ask for permission?

Collin:So the rule of thumb in our house is that, before my daughters go on a date with any boy, those boys will be going on dates with me.

Ann: So what do you mean they’ll be going on a date with you?

Collin:We’re going to go get lunch; we’re going to go to the golf course.

Ann: We’re not talking engagement; we’re talking going on a date to a movie.

Dave:So this hasn’t happened yet?

Collin:Oh, no; not yet. Not yet.

Dave: No dates yet.

Collin: Not yet.

Ann: Are the girls dreading it, or do they think this is a good plan?

Collin:Up until this point, they’ve said it’s a good plan. We are very open in our home about dating, very open in our home about relationships and the dynamics of marriage. I was just recently talking with my oldest, and—

Ann: How old is she?

Collin:She’s 14. I was just talking to her about dating. She was like: “Dad, I’m very comfortable with you identifying who you think might be a good guy,” and “If you don’t think he’s a good guy, I’m comfortable with taking that advice.” We’ll see how this turns out two years from now. I’m not holding the fort on this one—believing that her current 14-year-old perspective is going to be her 16-year-old perspective—but I’m going to live in this space for as long as she’ll let me.

Ann: It’s super sweet; it says a lot about her trust and her love for you.

Collin:Yeah; she’s an amazing kid, and she’s got a great mom. I think that, in so many ways, Stacey has modeled to our girls what it looks like to trust me and to do life together. I could not have been blessed with a more gracious and kind wife, who has a vision, I think, for her daughters and the kind of hope we have for what their romantic futures might look like.

Ann: You’ve been discipling your kids on how to date.

Collin:Yeah, we’re hoping so. And part of that’s the way that we are choosing to date each other—

Ann: That’s really cool.

Collin: —and continue to do that—20 years in.

Dave:Now, is that because, as we started talking yesterday: “Modern romance is broken.” Are you trying to help your kids understand how to do it right?

Collin:Yes! Modern romance is broken, and it is breaking us. Stacey and I—for

15 years, now, in vocational ministry—have had a front-row seat to the pain, the sorrow, and the regret that so many adults carry when it comes to their relationships. I think so much of what we are teaching—so much of what we’re helping our church learn and grow in, and so much of what we’re trying to bring into our own home—is to reorient our life around Jesus’s vision of healthy relationships; because we believe that, if the foundation is built in a strong way, the likelihood of a home, being built in a future of romantic relationship being healthy, increases all the more.

Frankly, I think, as parents, we oftentimes allow pop culture, and music, and TV shows, and the books that our kids are reading to help frame and shape their imagination of what a relationship should be, what’s appropriate in a relationship, or what they should be looking for. And we want to get right into that conversation with our kids and, hopefully, be the first and the loudest voice that they hear when it comes to understanding what God’s desire for healthy romance can look like. And it can be fun, and enjoyable, and a blast; and we can still do it in a way that honors God.

Ann: But even, as you did this series at church on “Modern Romance,” this has been something that’s not just a series—you and Stacey have been living this out—it’s important to you. And then, you based this whole series that you did at church on Matthew 7:24-27. I’m going to read it; and then, I want you to tell me why that’s so important: “Why is that the foundation of this series?”

Dave:You don’t know this: but one the first marriage series we ever did—before we had a book called Vertical Marriage—but before that, it was called “Marriage on the Rock”; because the phrase back then was: “My marriage is on the rocks”; meaning, “I’m in trouble; we’re going to…:—and we thought, “No, there’s a different way to do it”; it came from this passage, so we love this passage as a foundational passage for marriage.

Ann: And this is Jesus speaking; and He says, “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet, it did not fall because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not put them into practice, is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

Collin:The teachings of Jesus are summarized in Matthew, Chapter 7. It’s after He has finished explaining what it looks like to walk in His ways—what it means to follow Him—in this really famous sermon called the “Sermon on the Mount.” After Jesus gives all of this wisdom on how we’re to live, He concludes His sermon with these last words. He says, “There’s really two ways that you can choose to live your life. One way is to practice what I have taught you to work at, and to engage in doing what I have said will lead to health and will lead to joy in your life. Or you can choose to hear it and not put it into practice.” Jesus makes this great comparison that, those who practice, are building their life on a foundation that is unchanging. And those who don’t put these things into practice—they might have a beautiful home, but it’s on a shaky foundation—and when life’s tests come, and when life’s storms come, there won’t be much to show for it.

And I think that, in our marriage relationships—in our dating relationships—my goodness, we can have homes that look beautiful on the outside. We can have all of the right aesthetics—we can have the shiplap; we can have the perfect cabinets; we can have everything that makes a home look like it belongs in a magazine or on a TV show—but you really don’t know the strength of that home until a storm comes. And I think, in our life in ministry, what’s seen over, and over, and over again, is that people—who have what looks like something really good on the outside—when life comes and hits hard, you find out that what they really had could not stand the test of time.

This foundational passage of Jesus’s teaching, I think, is directly applicable to our relationships. We all know marriages that looked good on the outside; and then, all of a sudden, we found out that things weren’t going good. We all know of dating relationships that communicated a degree of integrity; when in reality, there wasn’t. Our hope, in this “Modern Romance” teaching—our hope in how we teach and think about relationships—is saying, “Hey, instead of paying attention to how things look on the outside, let’s do the internal work first; so that, what we build over a lifetime will be able to last and be a worthwhile legacy.”

Dave:Yeah, it’s interesting: when I’ve taught on this in the past, I’ve always—I’ve done this many times, even at conferences—I said, “Let me read you a passage,” and “Listen to this…”—and I cut out a part; I just say, “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine is like a wise man who builds a house on a rock.” Most people don’t even realize I cut anything out; they’re like, “Yeah, that’s right.” And it’s like, “No, no; the big issue that Jesus’s trying to get at: ‘It isn’t just hearing the Word’—because everybody sitting in church is hearing the Word—’but who’s going to walk out and put it into practice?’”

“How do you put it into practice?”—I think a lot of us do—we go; we listen; we sit; we take notes; we “Amen,”—and then, we get in the parking lot; we’re screaming at people going too slow, getting out of the parking lot—we’re like/it’s gone in 15 minutes. I got to go home and live this out of my home: “How do you put into practice the words of Jesus; so that, when the storms do come, I’m building on the Rock?”

Collin:I love that question. And I think that following Jesus is not complex; it’s making the decision to do simple things consistently. And when it comes to our relationship with God, and our relationship with others, it’s making the decision to say, “What are the practices that I know: ‘If I input this consistently in my life, this is wisdom,’ ‘If I input these practices consistently in my life, it will help me get to the kind of relationship that I want to have’?”

We know this—right?—“If you eat poorly, you’re not going to get great blood work; at some point—

Dave:Been there; done that.

Collin:—that’s going to catch up with you.

If you are not intentional in your marriage, you’re not going to have a marriage that is healthy and legacy-making. But if you make the decisions to say, “I’m going to do a couple of things consistently over time,” you’ll be amazed at what kind of marriage you can have, years later. And it’s about small deposits, every day, that make the biggest difference.

Ann: What have you and Stacey done? Give us a couple of small deposits you’ve done.

Collin:Yeah, so I think there are two that have been really helpful for us. We kind of have two phrases that we kind of use around them. So the first one is: “Be aware of the box.” Everybody brings their box into a marriage relationship, and inside that box are expectations:

There’s a way that we grew up.

There’s a way that we expected marriage to go.

We expect to have food at this time or somebody to make that food.

We expect the chores to be divided a certain way.

We expect the income to come from certain places or from certain individuals.

“Who’s going to be with the kids?” “Who’s going to pick up the kids?”

“Who’s going to do the dishes?” “Who’s going to fold the laundry?”

“How many times a week are we going to be intimate?”

“Are you going to watch my TV show with me?”

“Can I go play golf with the boys?”

There’s all of these expectations we have about what marriage needs to be.

I think one of the decisions Stacey and I have had to lean into, over the last 15 years—this is not easy, but it is a consistent conversation we have—is talking about: “What’s in our box?” and being open and honest about what expectations we have—not so that the other person can meet those expectations—so that, as we name those expectations, we can realize that we are bringing something into the marriage that needs to be addressed or dealt with.

I think that’s the first piece here is: sometimes, sitting down with your spouse, and saying, “Here’s how I thought this was going to go; it’s not going this way. I’m not saying it has to go this way”; but by naming the way you thought it was supposed to go, it creates the dynamic and the space for you to look in the mirror, and say, “Is this marriage about me and what I want?” or “Is this marriage about you, and me serving you?”

Ann: Okay, give us an example.

Collin:I am Caribbean. And so I grew up in a household where I never saw my father make his own plate. The way that it works is: Dad sits down; Mom makes the plate; Dad gets the plate first; and that’s what a healthy, good family does.

Dave:I think it’s in the Bible somewhere.

Collin:Somewhere; it’s got to be.

Dave:—got to be.

Collin:Stacey’s family: you make your own plate. I remember this, when we were dating, early—at a family meal—Stacey would get her plate, and she would come sit down. I’d be really upset. We got married; she’d make her own plate; sit down. I’d get really offended.

Ann: Were you sitting at the table, waiting?—

Collin:Yeah, 100 percent.

Ann: —just like your dad.

Collin:—1,000 percent. And Stacey would look at me, and be like, “Honey, are you going to eat? Aren’t you hungry?” I would just feel this sense of great indignation and “How disrespectful is this?” We had a conversation about it, years later. I mean, this is one of those things—

Ann: Isn’t it crazy how years went by?

Dave: This went on for years?

Collin: —years later, yeah, where I brought up the expectation. She said, “Honey, I never knew that was a thing.” And now, the great irony is she fixes me a plate every time we go to our family’s house; and she always has a big smile on her face when she does it—not because she’s fixing me a plate—but because she’s like, “Oh, poor Collin needs his plate; I’ll take care of you.” It’s a really kind thing that she does to help me have connection back to how I grew up. That’s one expectation; that’s just a silly one.

Ann: Isn’t it crazy how you went years? I think most of us go years without stating our expectations.

Collin: Correct.

Dave:What were yours, or one of yours? What’d you bring in that box?

Ann: I don’t know; can you think of one right now?

Dave:Mine was sports.

Ann: Sports.

Dave:I was thinking about it when Collin was saying—I was like, “Yeah, I brought in the expectation that I’d be able to play all my sports every night of the week.” I could play pickup basketball; I’d be in basketball league; softball league; flag football. I did that for years. I mean, I was a college athlete, so I’m like—

Ann: You did all of those for years.

Dave:I did all those; and I brought that in, thinking, “Your brothers were all athletes; I played high school ball with them. Your dad was my coach. You’re going to be on board with that.” And you were for a while; and then, kids came; and you’re like, “You’re out playing your softball game when you have a seven-, eight-, nine/ten-year-old? You need to be on their ball diamond.”

And I’m like, “You’re right.” I brought that in—never talked about it—just signed up for the leagues, and expected you to go, “Go guy; go play your little games. I’ll just be at home, and I’ll take care of everything just like your mom did”; because that’s what my mom did—my life was the center of her world: divorced mom/single mom, just me—so I brought that in, definitely. We never talked about it.

Ann: Mine was, spiritually, what it would look like.

Dave:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah; here we go.

Ann: I would listen to Focus on the Family®. I would listen to Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine on FamilyLife Today; and I thought, “Oh, Dave’s going to be just like Dennis Rainey. He’s going to lead us in these family devotionals, and our children will sit quietly,”—three boys.

Dave:And I did, right?

Ann: We did it in a different way. But I had this expectation—I never told him—I never told him what I thought it would look like for him to lead, spiritually.

Dave:She, eventually, did tell me

Ann: —what he should be doing. I didn’t talk about my expectations; I talked about what he should be doing.

I think this is a great point.

Collin:They’re not expectations, Dave; they’re just standards.

Dave: Exactly. I remember saying, “I am not Dennis Rainey!”

Ann: I think it’s a great conversation.

Collin:I think it’s very important. So just a quick kind of clue in here: “The best time to share your expectations is not in the middle of conflict. The best time to do that is when you’ve set aside time, to say, ‘Hey, let’s do a marriage check-in; and let’s talk about what we’re expecting and bringing to the table right now.’”

And here’s why I think this is so important; because usually, in a marriage, there’s one person who’s willing to share how they feel; and there’s another person who is not. And when you create a dynamic, where one person is sharing all the time and the other person is not, that other person doesn’t have expectations, it’s that they’re not sharing them. And unexpressed and unmet expectations lead to eventual resentments.

Dave:Resentment, yes.

Collin:And so for our marriage, one of the key pieces is having an open rhythm of communication, that says, “Hey, here’s what my expectations are right now,”—and not placing a burden on the other person to have to measure up and meet them.

Ann: And you’re saying that out loud:—

Collin:Yes.

Ann: —”Here’s my expectations, and it’s just my expectation; I’m not expecting you to meet these.”

Collin:And I think, for us, it sounds like/things like: “Here’s what I’m bringing into our marriage right now,” or “Hey, here’s how I grew up and thought this was going to go,” or “I wonder if my own stuff is working its way in here,” or “When you do this, this is what I’m thinking”; right? It’s creating spaces and environments to just name it—because here’s what I want to assume—I want to assume that two people, who made promises to each other, really want to do their best to fulfill those promises.

What ends up happening, when we are unwilling to share what our expectations are, is we begin to hold people to standards that they don’t even know they’re being held to. And then, we get angry at them for things that they didn’t even have an opportunity or choice to change. And at the same time, there can be expectations that, when we say them out loud, we recognize how ridiculous they are. It’s like sex is an example: I have an expectation that we’re going to have sex every day. Well, when you say that out loud—and you think about how much your spouse carries, how tired they are, what kind of day they’ve been walking through—even in naming your own expectation: getting it out of your brain and into the world—you can almost look at it, from an outsider’s perspective, and say, “Maybe, that’s not a great expectation.”

I’d say that that’s one big piece: “Identify what’s in your box.” Know that everybody’s bringing a box into marriage—a box of expectations—open up that box; be honest with your spouse about what’s in it, but do not place a burden or expectation on your spouse to need to meet those things.

The assumption is that: “If I can, I will; because I want to love you, and I want to serve you.” And sometimes, it’s simple things, like, “Hey, it means a lot to me when you choose to make a plate for me; because that’s what I saw as a really special moment between my mom and my dad on holidays,”—and now, what was a previous resentment that I held/a silent resentment that I held—is a moment: every single time we’re together with family, where it’s Stacey’s choice to do that—I mean, as weird as it sounds, or as vulnerable as it is, or as silly as it is—I feel like a million bucks, because it connects me back to my childhood and some of my favorite memories.

Dave:And also, I’m just going to take you to another point you made in the sermon on this: when you put down the box of expectations, you also said, “Win the serve.”

Collin:Yes.

Dave:And that’s what she’s doing!

Collin:—100 percent.

Dave:Talk about that, because that’s a big point.

Collin:So here are the two elements: “Put down the box,” and “Win the serve.” I don’t know if you guys are pickleball players.

Dave: Oh, yeah.

Collin: Okay.

Dave:Let’s go; you ready?

Collin:It’s a great game. You tell me when and where—

Dave: Stacey, we’re on.

Collin: You tell me when and where.

But if you watch pickleball, one of the things that’s interesting about that sport—or any racket sport: tennis, racquetball—is so much of the game is determined by that first serve. In the same way, I think that the Scriptures have this really interesting way of talking about competition; Romans says this: “Outdo one another in showing honor.” Now, Stacey and I both have a sports background; so anytime there’s an element of competition, I think we’re signed up for it.

But Paul’s heart here, in that text, is saying, “Listen, you want a great relationship? You want a healthy relationship? You want the kind of community that you’ve always longed for, the kind of marriage and intimacy that you always dreamed about?—make this decision: ‘Win the serve—outdo one another in showing honor—think of ways that you can bless your spouse and serve them in ways that will remind them of how special they are, how much they matter to you; and watch the flywheel effect of that.’”

I have never run into a married couple—who, in their mind, was saying, “You know what? I want to outdo; I want to win the serve. I want to outdo my spouse in showing honor,”—I’ve never met a couple that didn’t have a great marriage that made that decision. I really do think it’s about decisions; I’m going to decide, “I’m going to practice communicating my expectations; and then, leaving them; and I’m going to practice serving my spouse.”

And let me get really tangible and practical here. We hear messages, all the time, about serving—“Here’s what serving looks like…”—pay attention and do something about it.

When your wife says—“Man, I really like that watch,” or “…that shirt,”—pay attention to what she just said. Know her size; order it on Amazon; let it show up two days later; and see the smile on her face.

When your husband says, “Man, I am deadbeat tired”; and you hear that when he is on his way home—pull out his favorite drink; meet him at the door—and say, “Hon, thanks for working so hard for our family.”

It’s simple stuff: it’s paying attention and doing something about it.

Ann: And I would add, too: “If you are doing it to get something in return, you might be disappointed.

Collin:Yes.

Ann: “It’s not about that.”

Dave:That’s not hesed; that’s not sacrificial serving.

Collin:Hesed love is not about what God gets out of it; it’s what God is able to give us. I think, when we see our marriage that way—when we think about marriage through the lens: “Of all of the people in the world, I get to spend a lifetime making this person feel special,”—all of a sudden, marriage becomes a really fun game. I think that that competitive spirit of saying, “I want to outdo you in showing honor,” creates a really great space and environment.

I would say, when I see Stacey light up the most in our marriage, it’s when I’m putting that practice into play, consistently, in small ways and in big ways.

Dave:I know that, when I walk through the kitchen—and pay attention, and see all the dishes—I think, “I’m going to go watch a game.” But when I do something about it—I mean, seriously/literally, that simple little act of—“You know what? How hard is it? I’m going to throw them in a dishwasher.” It isn’t like I’m—and some of it you got to scrub, but mostly—I mean, I walk in the family room, where Ann is; and she looks at me, like, “Thank you”; I mean, you can see this joy!

Ann: It’s so sweet—like, “Oh! I need to go in there and do that,”—and when he does it, it’s like, “Oh, my goodness; thanks for noticing!”

Collin:Yeah. And I think paying attention—we are often doing that—but we’re not always doing something about it.

And I just want to add one thought here—that I think, Ann, what you said, was so brilliant and so true—the goal is not to serve so that you can be seen; and the goal is not to serve so that you can get what you want out of the relationship. But ironically, when you serve, it’s like God has hardwired us to find enjoyment in that. There is something I feel—when Stacey says that she is interested in an outfit, and I buy it for her—there’s something I feel internally; it’s like, “I’m taking care of my girl.” When I put dishes away, “I’m taking care of my girl.” And I know, on her end, there’s something that she feels when she knows that I’ve had a hard day—and when I’m with her, she knows she has the power to change my perspective and bring me joy—I know that, for her, it’s something that she really enjoys, as well.

I would just encourage you: if you’ve gotten into this rut in your marriage of comparison—this rut in your marriage of: “Well, here are all the things that I’m doing…; and he’s not doing that,” or “…she’s not doing those things,”—you can choose to keep that attitude if you’d like, but you will not find joy there. But if you make the decision to serve, with no expectation of being served in return, what’s so interesting is: God actually forms something in your heart that’s even more valuable and beneficial than getting the thing that you want; because ultimately, what you’re getting is God’s heart for you. And there is something special about that.

Dave:Collin, good stuff. Thanks, man.

Ann: That’s really good.

Collin: Appreciate you guys.

Shelby: I love that perspective; it is so counterintuitive for sinners like me, though—I won’t speak for you—but that’s really a beautiful gut punch for me. It’s just really embracing the gospel of understanding what Christ has done for you—and then, knowing that you’re just dying to yourself—and in that death, there is true life. It’s amazing.

I’m Shelby Abbott; and you’ve been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson, with Collin Outerbridge, on FamilyLife Today. If this has really helped you, I would encourage you to check out more from Collin Outerbridge because he has a four-part video series that we’ve linked for you in the show notes today, where he discusses “Modern Romance” and really dives deeper into the subject. So again, if you want to find out more from Collin—want to learn more from him after you’ve heard him today; or maybe, you heard him on our program yesterday—you could head over to the show notes and find a four-part video series on “Modern Romance” there.

We’re in a culture right now that’s difficult, to say the least. A lot of people are tired of the tension and division that exists on things like social media, and family gatherings; and maybe, even around your own kitchen table. Well, Psalm 1:33 tells us that it’s good for believers to live in unity with one another; but in today’s easily-angered and kind of often-offended world, it could feel like just impossible to get to that point, which is why I’m really excited to invite you to join us for a five-week video series from our friend—author and comedian—Amberly Neese. She’s partnered with us, at Family Life, to put together a video series called “Moving Toward Each Other in the Middle of a Divisive World.” And that’s really where we’re living right now. She’s going to guide us and give us some really practical advice and instruction on how to build peace in our own backyards when our differing thoughts, and opinions, and beliefs threaten to create division. You could sign up for this five-part video series by going to the show notes, or head over to FamilyLife.com/FindingCommonGround. Again, you could find a link in the show notes; or go to FamilyLife.com/FindingCommonGround.

Now, coming up tomorrow: “Is it okay to be single?” I mean, really: “Is it okay to be single?” “Is Christ truly enough for everyone, regardless of your marriage status?” Well, tomorrow, my friend, Sam Alberry affirms that our relationship with God does not depend upon our marital status. He joins Dave and Ann Wilson tomorrow; we hope you’ll join us for that. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I’m Shelby Abbott. We’ll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.

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